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2. Firmin, "solid" with no scoop, but a trace outline can be observed; also, the flaw on the bottom rim/leading edge of the pennon nearest to the camera.

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3. Firmin, unmarked slider on this occasion, with a "solid" reverse, additionally the scoop is evident on this one behind the elephants head and the pennon flaw too.

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I mentioned the "2" flaw traits also.

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A couple of Birthday presents I received yesterday.

I'd been after a nice unmarked (devoid of any "P" or "S" markings) set of 23rd Hussars officers' collars, hence, I snapped this pair up a few weeks back; the second picture set is a matched pair, as I finally found the correct pattern single to join its long awaiting brother. I think I will eventually clean the new and tarnished example one of these days, but how to do it without polishing it is another matter.

Best,

Marcus

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I have this 22nd Dragoons badge.

 

I think it's a good one ??

 

Cheers,Martin.

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I'm am presuming that this one is a fake,or at least never issued ??

 

26th Hussars.

 

Regards,Martin.

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Martin.

Your 26th Hussars is of the un-adopted trial pattern. Like you I presume yours is a fake.

 

Your 22nd Dragoons has the 'blob' on the reverse in the 9 o'clock position referred to by Marcus. The only 22nd Dragoons other ranks cap badge referred to in Peter Seaman's book is described as being on a slider. However as yours [and others on lugs] look to be good, I wonder if they were later production. So probably a good badge but not proven to have been worn [on lugs] as yet.

 

That sound about right Marcus ?

 

Graham.   

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That sounds about right, Graham, yes.

As for this very exact 26H Trial Pattern, I like it, or perhaps rather, I "believe" in this very example; not that my opinion constitutes to much.

I own two gilding-metal examples that portray the exact details of Martin's badge. I'm sure you're aware there are a multiple of versions abound and consequently many opinions surrounding these too.

Hence, I can only share that a maker marked badge once owned by Hugh King which he in turn presented to Peter Seaman now resides in my collection. The second example, I purchased from eBay for the price of £30. Both the marked and unmarked badges in my possession exhibit each trait, flaw or detail I can observe or determine to deem them from the same die source.

In fact, within the last week or two an example sold on eBay for £175! An expensive risk, or does that buyer know something perhaps?

Is it genuine? Well, naturally, I'd like to think so, but I'll remain objective in the lack of knowledge on the matter, as a part of me does wonder...???

I have attempted to research further as to the origins of these badges with little and no success. However, there is a unsubstantiated story about a water damaged cardboard box that was found (on the demolishing of a premises) with a number of these 26H badges contained within in varying state's of condition - due to their former damp environment. And, according to the story when these badges started to circulate in the very late 1960s, there was little or no interest paid to them. That is, until John Gaylor pictured one in his *1971 book; prior to the 1973 sales date release of the Gaunt, 26H, TP, "restrike."

A convenient supporting story maybe, or could there be an element of truth to it?

And why would Gaunt make so called restrikes of a design when the evident maker mark would suggest perhaps otherwise. There are just too many loose ends surrounding these for me to have an absolute notion of confidence in them either way, at this moment in time.

Best,

Marcus

* Does anyone have a first edition of John Gaylor's Military Badge Collecting book? Mine, is a republished version and come to think of it, I'd be interested if indeed this 26H badge is in the first published book.

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Any thoughts as to why, Dave?

Best,

Marcus

Font,slider,double strike on the back.

100% Fake

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This arrived today.

Really good strike. Noticed a brassy [g/m] hue to some parts.

Seems to be made of g/m with a wash of silver or w/m.

 

Any thoughts on this one ?

 

Thanks

 

Graham.

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A good Firmin die 22D badge, Graham.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the further comments. I too, have my reservations surrounding this rather familiar and particular slider style, yes.

Best,

Marcus

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Struggling to tell if my 22D  is a w/m badge with some 'brown' staining. Or a g/m badge with an applied silver or w/m wash. That's with the use of my loop in day light. Tempted to give it a clean. 

As you say Marcus looks like a good Firmin strike.

 

Graham.

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Struggling to tell if my 22D  is a w/m badge with some 'brown' staining. Or a g/m badge with an applied silver or w/m wash. That's with the use of my loop in day light. Tempted to give it a clean. 

As you say Marcus looks like a good Firmin strike.

 

Graham.

It could very well be gilding-metal or even by definition another alloy of sorts that is coated/plated, as such. This appears to be a common manufacturing practice and hence generically called "white-metal" for purposes of distinction. For example: I have two polish tired badges that belonged to family members being a DLI (WW1era) and RAC (WW2 era) badge that are washed, plated or however best to refer to them. The lugged 24L OR badges are too, as are the arm badge components for the 24th Lancers.

Best,

Marcus

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Thanks Marcus.

Convinced now the badge is struck in g/m [or similar] and then an applied 'wash' of w/m. Too thin to be called plated.

Actually I have British made USAAF wings that are produced in this way.

 

Thanks.

 

Graham.

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A couple of 25th Dragoons arrived today.

 

First. An Indian made, cast badge. Manufactured in three parts. It looks to be a close match to P.Seaman's fig 56, although fractionally larger than the dimensions quoted. It has at some point been lacquered which has now yellowed giving the w/m swords a brassy appearance. I think this could be a cap or collar badge.

 

The other is a British made die struck o/r's cap badge on a slider.

 

Graham.

 

 

 

 

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Two quality examples, Graham!

The UK made badge is of course an unmarked J.R. Gaunt and the Indian manufactured example is in my opinion related to Fig.51; I'll share some insight and thoughts about that at a later date.

To remove the lacquer you could try using a hairdryer to assist in lifting it from the badge surface; I would say thinners, but the backplates appear to be "washed" on a lot of these 25D badges.

Best,

Marcus

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The age old question. To clean or not to clean ?

I had considered thinners. Assuming the  lacquer has been applied by a collector [most likely] post war, it is tempting to remove it. But if there is any chance it was applied by the serviceman himself, or possibly the  manufacturer, I think it should be left.

 

Marcus. It is closer in size to fig 51, which I notice is described as 'pinned'. Fig 56 is described as 'riveted'. Not sure if there is a difference or which I have. There are two versions of fig 56. As illustrated with the tail ends of the scroll passing under the swords and with them passing over the swords [like mine]. Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

Graham.

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Hi Graham,

Your example would be what Peter determines as "riveted," and Fig.51 has two pins extending through the white-metal base and upper brass overlay; you'll see it more clearly in the book now situated where the bottom portion of the scroll furls around.

Also, this very pattern of badge can be encountered with the rivet construction too.

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Three examples of the exact pattern you own showing some varying techniques in the hand-made construction of securing the pin; punched flat one side (rivet style), spliced and then just folded over.

I've seen and own some Indian made 25D badges that have a combination of the above methods of attachment, too.

The "51" badge has cast and drilled loops, these can be found of some of the cap/collar badges and additionally the arm badge centres when of a two part construction.

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Some 25D arm badges showing the central badge with cast lugs/loops and even the bottom right backing plate with such too.

@ I'll get back to you Graham with my thoughts about your very badge pattern and the reasoning as to why the relationship with "51."

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