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Found this scetch online, I don't know who to credit for that but note 24 states armoured glass 60mm and I have just measured it and it is 60mm so I suppose that is a part of the cockpit glass. I think the other bit is from the wing and is readily identifiyable. I have marked the areas in red.

 

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Only 2 bits today but inside 15minutes, my smoke break if I smoked!

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Photo of a similar machine from the same squadron I believe. Credit to RAF Museum. I have to say that is a mean looking machine!

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Guys,

 Some more bits!

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Friend has found this at work, none of the times corespond, I will ask him jf he can send a link to the source. Perhaps some possible names?

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Couple more bits!

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More bits, not so much to find now, I think we have exhausted the surface finds. 'Thats all folks' as they said at the end of Bugs Bunny! 

The large flat piece is odd in that it appears to have thin ply wood riveted to it? Any thoughts?

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Thanks Richard for sharing your findings, I am always interested in ground findings, and then doing the research to find what Aircraft, Vehicle, Tank etc.     

Lou

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A few more bits!

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No joy with Fassberg war graves although they have a few that must be air crew but no close dates, not in Bergen either. I will check Soltau next as they had a Lazert too!

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Bit of a twist today, poking around as usual when I get a minute and located the remenants of a belt of British 303 ammo. What was curious was it was in metal link and having done a bit of research on the head stamps it appears to be armour piercing and incendeiary ammo cases? What is that doing there? The ammo is dated 44 so I think a bit too close to the crash date to be a booty board waffe. I am thinking collision with target/preditor?  I am searching online and there was an operation that night to bomb Berlin and we lost 34 aircraft in total. I suppose the hard part will now be to try and find candidates that could fit the bill. I presume if it were a collision there is the possability that both crews died, we know the German lads did! Have found this, any ideas to take this forward? I can't believe we were taking these sort of casualties when the war was effectively won, well not for another year but close! The question now is how to find out about the 34 losses? Looking at these losses and others I think it is safe to say the youth of today have got it very good!

27/28 January 1944

515 Lancasters and 15 Mosquitos despatched to Berlin. The German fighters were committed to action earlier than normal, some being sent out 75 miles over the North Sea from the Dutch coast. A number of elaborate feints and diversions had some effect; Half of the German fighters were lured north by the Heligoland mining diversion and action in the main bomber stream was less intense than on recent nights. 33 Lancasters lost, 6.4 per cent of the heavy force. The target was cloud-covered again and skymarking had to be used. Bomber Command was not able to make any assessment of the raid except to state that the bombing appeared to have been spread well up and down wind.

Extensive operations were carried out in support of the Berlin raid. 80 Stirlings and Wellingtons flew to the Dutch coast and laid mines there, 21 Halifaxes did the same near Heligoland, both hoping to draw the German fighters up early. 9 aircraft flew RCM sorties and 12 Mosquitos flew Serrate patrols. 18 Mosquito-bomber aircraft dropped imitation 'fighter flares' away from the main bomber routes to and from the target. 140 aircraft were thus engaged in various operations in support of the main raid. 1 Stirling minelayer lost.

9 Mosquitos bombed a flying-bomb site at Herbouville, 8 Halifaxes flew Resistance operations sorties, 10 OTU aircraft dropped leaflets over France. No aircraft lost.

Total effort for the night: 697 sorties, 34 aircraft (4.9 per cent) lost.

Best 

Rich

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Another twist! My colleage that is very knowledgable in the area of munitions has suggested that the British ammo is 'sabotage ammunition', I have no idea what this means. He states that from the position that the cases are in fact low grade steel not brass but with a brass wash to give the impression? I have never heard such nonsense but he knows his stuff and is addament that the Germans used captured 'Bordwaffen' within their aircraft? I like my theory better but we will see how he documents it. I hope he has photographed the ammo before destruction.

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I thought sabotage ammo was left for the enemy to find, they'd use it in their own weapons and the weapon would be destroyed when firing, injuring or killing the person firing. Therefore I'd have thought if it was .303 then the Germans were dropping it for Commonwealth troops to find and use. The allies would have left German rounds to do the same.

Anyway, that's just my thinking and I could be wrong. 

Being steel they must have been rusted and pitted, were they in a deteriorated condition, a bit like German WWI rounds?

All very interesting so please keep us posted, especially if your colleague elaborates on sabotage ammo.  🙂

 

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I never thought of it that way round I suppose they could have been dropping it on Brit airfields? Bit far fetched for me. They were in relatively good nick for 70 years in the ground. I will get some pictures. I have a few more bits I must post up when I have photographed them.

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I've just had a search, have a look at this http://weaponsman.com/?p=21822 It shows a cross section of a sabotage round apparently made by the Brits. The examples of cross section photos are interesting, if nothing else.

Looking forward to any other finds you make in the crash area and the research.

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On 10/6/2018 at 6:54 PM, Richard Auld said:

...I can't believe we were taking these sort of casualties when the war was effectively won, well not for another year but close! The question now is how to find out about the 34 losses? Looking at these losses and others I think it is safe to say the youth of today have got it very good!

 

Total effort for the night: 697 sorties, 34 aircraft (4.9 per cent) lost.

...

Best 

Rich

You mention taking 34 losses in January 1944 but just 2 months later Bomber Command suffered their heaviest losses in the war for a single raid when they lost 96 aircraft on the raid on Nuremberg with a further 10 aircraft being written off when they got back to the UK, so 106 aircraft lost in total. In that number the RAF lost 545 airmen which surpasses the 449 fighter pilots lost in the whole of the Battle of Britain.

The RAF losses for 27/28th January 1944 are covered in Volume 1 of Nachtjagd War Diaries - it does mention a collision between a Bf-110G-4 (G9+ML) of Oberleutnant Baake (who was the Staffelkapitän of 3./NJG-1) and a Lancaster (DS710) of 408 Squadron. The collision happened to the southwest of Aachen with both aircraft crashing at the Urftalsperre near Gemünd. Baake survived unscathed but his Bordfunker  (Uffz Heinz Waldbauer) was killed.

The Lancaster crew were all killed and are buried at the Rheinberg War Cemetery.

Lancaster II DS710 EQ-A of 408 Squadron took off at 1747 from RAF Linton-on-Ouse

Squadron Leader C W Smith DFC FCAF

Flying Officer H R Wilson RCAF

Sgt M F R Sorton

Flying Officer D McD Sim (possible misprint) RCAF

Flying Officer J D Teskey RCAF

Flying Officer T K Canning RCAF

Flight Sgt C W Frauts RCAF

Pilot Officer J G Bennett RCAF.

 

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Shocking losses for single actions so late in the war, they bombed Germany flat but were they effective? Speer managed to increase German output in 44/45. I suppose hindsight is marvelous in this case.

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