GWilliamson

Wehrmacht Ordnungstruppe

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Hi Guys

 

I got this week this small (but nice:)) Group GD Ordnungstruppe

 

Regards

 

Seba

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Very nice Seba ! These MP artefacts from the immediate postwar period are fascinating/ More evidence of the British Zone using former members of the Ordnungstruppe.

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I was following this neat forum a while but had never time to post - or maybe I was just too lazy. Anyway, I think this soldbuch fits in here nicely.

Nothing spectacular really, the guy was with some Urlaubsüberwachungs units and one of them eventually became Streifenabteilung 103.

 

Stangest thing is the small note which say that this soldier is not to receive any vaccination anymore. No clue why?

 

Unfortunately the railway stations are in general a topic which does not seem to be well documented even though they were so important.

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Thanks for showing that Soldbuch and good to see you here. I love seeing entries for the more obscure units, and I have never seen an entry for the Urlaubsüberwachung units before. Fantastic.

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I was following this neat forum a while but had never time to post - or maybe I was just too lazy. Anyway, I think this soldbuch fits in here nicely.

Nothing spectacular really, the guy was with some Urlaubsüberwachungs units and one of them eventually became Streifenabteilung 103.

 

Stangest thing is the small note which say that this soldier is not to receive any vaccination anymore. No clue why?

 

Unfortunately the railway stations are in general a topic which does not seem to be well documented even though they were so important.

 

Glad you took the step and took part actively on the Forum, Michael. This is a great place and warm, friendly community so you'll enjoy your stay. This Forum is about the quality and kindness and not quantity. And a great first post on the Forum! Maybe Gordon - the MP specialist - will be able to tell you more.

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I have here the soldbuch of Feldwebel Hans Probst. He was withouth a doubt a brave soldier but - like so often in soldbücher - it

is not so easy to track his career. Initially he was with Infanterie Regiment 53 where he was doing a job as "normal" soldier. Later,

probably in the first half of 1944, he changed to Feldjäger Bataillon 2. Unfortunately I don't know how such a change was triggered.

I know that they chose experienced and highly decorated front soldiers to form those Feldjäger Streifen but how he was chosen I don't know.

Maybe he was just in the right/wrong place at the right time. I guess his traditional unit was not too happy to loose another experiences NCO.

Around the time of his change he was promoted to Feldwebel. So I guess he was then a member of a typical Feldjägerstreife which consisted of

1 officer and 3 Feldwebel. What he exactly his Streife did is probably not possible to find out anymore. But the Feldjäger had generally very

high powers to keep the war machine going (hunting deserters or even removing commanders from their posts).

I see no entry for any special unit marking.

Source for my info: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Ordnungstruppen/FJ.htm

 

 

Another great item - you are going to make Gordon very jealous again! : )

 

Are there any special kit issues for his Feldjäger role such as an armband? I wonder if he was in a depot unit recuperating from his wounding in 1942 or in an instructor role and when Feldjäger-Btl 2 was formed his commanding officer put his name forward being an experienced soldier and holder of the EK I?

Feldjäger-Btl 2 operated on the Eastern Front. Feldjäger units are covered from page 231 to 243 in Gordon's 'Kettenhund' book.

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Haha, ah no, to cause jealousy is certainly not the intention. And also not necessary because fortunately there are enough nice items around for all of us :smile:

 

I did not see any special equipment entries for Feldjäger. In fact I would have expected it too as somehow it must have been visible that they were Feldjäger. But there is nothing.

I can hardly say what he did during the entire year of 1943. He had almost no holidays - once in mid 1943 and thereafter none at all. It is pure guessing - but I think the concept

of the instructor at a replacement unit would make sense.

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I've Gordon's book (You can find it on Amazon), on Feldjäger-Bataillon II is mentioned: 

"Formed 25 December 1943 from a mixture of Heer, Luftwaffe and Waffen-SS personnel organised into five fully motorised Kompanien. It operated exclusively on the Eastern Front. All elements appear to have initially used the same Feldpost number."

Thanks, Michael, for showing us another great Soldbuch!

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Another super Soldbuch !  

 

The Feldjäger Soldbuch I have also has no mention of any special equipment or insignia. I believe that many if not most Feldjäger  did not get a Gorget.

The armband, unlike the Feldgendarmerie.cuffband, would not be sewn to the sleeve, but like the MP armbands worn by British and American military police, would only be put on when on duty So, I'm not really surprised that a Feldjäger Soldbuch wouldn't have any.special entries other than the unit entries.

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Here is my favorite Feldgendarmerie soldbuch. I am often not terribly fond of those because the concept that Feldgendarme without combat experience were
supposed to control all the other soldiers who had combat experience always seemed wrong to me. But this guy spent the entire war in such units and managed
to see some action anyway. In 1942 he was shot in his knee which was probably a nasty wound. And in 1943 he was even awarded the general assault badge. Considering
how small a Feldgendarmerie Trupp was I would love to know under what circumstances he made the three assaults necessary for that badge.

On the equipment page there is an entry for a Ringkragen.

Anyway, he was lucky and not only survived the war but even ended it in Italy and came to a POW camp in Rimini - which is a place where others spend their holidays :thumbup:

 

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Beautiful Soldbuch but beware that it is entirely wrong to assume that all Feldgendarmen had no combat experience. Maybe during the campaign in Poland and France most were ex-civilian Police with no previous military experience, but as the war progressed many former combat soldiers from other branches served as Military Police. Same today. In the 1980s in my MP unit were several ex Infantry and at least two former paratroopers.

 

Notice that in your Soldbuch his rank is "Grenadier" so he is not a "professional" military policeman but a soldier with previous experience transfered to the MPs. Alomost certainly he earned his Allgemeines Sturmabzeichen with  4 (MK.G.) komp Inf Ers Batl 8.

Such combat awards genuinely earned as MPs are hard to find.

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Nice book Michael, an interesting one for sure,

if he won the assault badge with the MG komp wouldn't he have the Inf.Sturm Ab. ?

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But if combat awards earned as MP are hard to find, does that then not support my theory that most MP were almost automatically without combat awards (except if they happened to be with other troops initially and changed to the FG later)?

But I think this soldier earned his award while with a FG unit. He was never with another unit than FG except for the MG Ersatz unit which opened the soldbuch.

 

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16 minutes ago, Michael1000 said:

But if combat awards earned as MP are hard to find, does that then not support my theory that most MP were almost automatically without combat awards (except if they happened to be with other troops initially and changed to the FG later)?

But I think this soldier earned his award while with a FG unit. He was never with another unit than FG except for the MG Ersatz unit which opened the soldbuch.

I think Gordon refers to the combat experience of MP's not if they earned Combat Awards. Also in our military many of the MPs are seasoned veterans from all branches that want to become a MP. Were the Feldjäger not chosen on their combat experience? 

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I think Feldjäger were indeed chosen from experienced combat soldiers. What Gorden says is of course correct, many FG had combat experience. But if a Feldgendarmentrupp  existed in 1940 already and still existed in 1944 - is it then not likely that none of its members had any combat awards? Not saying that they did not do their duty or were cowards or anything but did they still have the respect of their frontline comrades to the necessary extent even in 1944/45? I think that they later chose Feldjäger particularly from highly decorated soldiers is an indication that there might have been such a problem. Would love to know. 

 

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Certainly possible for Feldgendarmen to earn combat awards. You can find Soldbücher for Feldgendarmen who never served in any other kind of unit and earned combat awards as MPs.

I had a doc set to a Luft Feldgendarm who earned the Luft Ground Combat Badge with the Feldgendarmerie and an SS Soldbuch to an officer who earned the Infantry Assault Badge, EK2 and EK1 all with the Feldgendarmerie.

It all depends on the type of Feldgendarmerie unit

If you look for instance at Soldbücher to Feldgendarmen who served with a Feldgendarmerietrupp in occupied France you are unlikely to find combat awards, maybe just a KVK2.

Look at a book for a Feldgendarmerietrupp attached to a Panzer Division or Infantry DIvision at the front and you are more likely to find one with a combat badge or EK.

In very many cases however, Feldgendarmerie books with combat awards show awards earned with another unit before transferring to the Feldgendarmerie.

 

The above Soldbuch is to a guy who served in Feldgend Abt 697 which was attached to Feldkommandantur of Heeresgruppe Nord, so a headquarters unit rather than one attached to an actual combat unit but yes, still possible he won the award with the Fg.

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This shot is pretty typical for Feldgendarmerie. He certainly served "at the front" in the East and not in a cushy billet in the occupied West.  Medal ribbons, a driver proficiency badge, campaign sheld for Krim, but no combat awards on his pocket.

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Sorry for the late reply - thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense.

And a very nice picture! For awards it certainly helped to be in the South of the Eastern front. Chances were good to get at least a Romanian medal and like in this case the Krimschild :smile:

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On 09/09/2012 at 3:19 PM, StGeorge64 said:

Although not an Ordungstruppe Soldbuch, Wehrpass or Ausweiss, I thought I would post this page of a Luftwaffe Soldbuch in my collection in the hope it may prove of interest.
......is anybody able to identify the Oberst signatory?
Regards Richard.

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Very much out of the blue, I have just been informed that the signaturebelongs to Oberst Claus Jebens (DKiG).

Regards Richard.

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