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I have photos of the event when Hitler in Memel during this time.  It is impossible to see the name on the tally but it's a safe bet it was this. 

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Considering she was laid down in 1936 was there ever any plans to issue a Bismarck cap tally?

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There are several opinions given.  I believe that there might have been constructed tallies produced but never issued.  I have contacts with several very well known collectors and no one has ever seen a period Tirpitz or Bismarck tally in photo or in any collection. 

I believe that there might have or could be possibility of a ship tally.  They weren't made available or issued.  The Zerstörer Anton Schmitt is the last believed ship to have a tally made before the OKM order to convert and have all go with the "Kriegsmarine" designation.

The timeline when launched vs commissioned is within the timeline when named units/ships would have constructed their Mützenbänder order placed.   I have never seen one.  As the years progress, I am a bit more skeptical, but I have a Kreuzer Lützow tally that I purchased from Weitze and many were amazed of it's existence. 

For Imperial tallies, I remember that several thought there was no Ubootflottille konstantinopel tally,  But there was an it showed up in a private collection. 

Perhaps in an old safe at the Blohm-Voss shipyard there lies a horde of unissued/unreleased tallies of the Bismarck or in WIlhelmshaven for the Tirpitz?

The fortunate thing is that all period constructed tallies have a very specialized jacquard looming construction to them.  Besides the Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst (HMS Belfast) fake,  (Never buy a shortened cellon or cotton Scharnhorst tally) There just aren't the fakes like you would find in any other cloth insignia group.  The back is so recognizable of a period vs a non-period constructed tally. 

I never like to say never, especially with these two ships.  The timeline and launch date are within the time when a tally might have been ordered/produced.  There is no photographic evidence to my knowledge of a period named tally for these ships.

That is what my feelings are with regards to the Tirpitz and the Bismarck and the possibility of a Mützenband for them.

Best Regards,

JustinG

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Thanks for the reply Justin (and apologies for the late reply). Would there of been a period handbook of cap tallies such as an 'official use only' example, or a manufacturers catalogue or sales board like you see for awards that could shed light?

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Justin that is a quite simply a stunning collection of Mützenbanden you have assembled.

I recently picked up a Luftwaffe document grouping to a Feldwebel who predominantly served as a Bordfunker in Kampfgeschwader 100, Lehrgeschwader 1 and Kampfgeschwader 27 "Boelcke".  Eventually awarded the EK 1 and FFS I Gold, he initially served within the Kreigsmarine.

Among the documents are some nice clear images of him in Kreigsmarine uniform, his Kreigsmarine Truppenausweis and two Mützenbande, 'Schiffstammabteilung 14' and 'Marinenachrichtenschule Aurich'.

Here are the Mützenbande photographed together, the 'Marinenachrichtenschule Aurich' has quite dark and subdued lettering which has unfortunatly made it appear unclear in the image however, the 'Schiffstammabteilung 14' is a very nice piece indeed with very vivid lettering.

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The 'Schiffstammabteilung 14' is for myself a very nice item and luckily just fitted on my scanner enabling myself to make a detailed scan accordingly.

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I was pleased to find among the photographs an example of him wearing his 'Schiffstammabteilung 14' Mützenband.

Hopefully these might of proved to be of some interest.

Regards Richard.

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These are quite common.  I have several like these.  Nice you were able to find a photograph of the tally in wear.  Thanks for sharing.

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On ‎03‎.‎03‎.‎2013 at 2:38 AM, JustinG said:

The Oberkommando tally is pretty rare.  Thanks for looking.  I will post more soon.

 

Regards,

JustinG

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Hi,

I have these Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine Tally in a Photo Mützenbander in wear!

 

Cheers,Morten.

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Picked up a nice variant of the Sailing ship Gorch Fock.   I can't say for certainty Why the ship name has quotes. But it is a nice metallfaden full length version.

Thanks for looking.

JustinG

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Kevin H:

With regard to your question:  There were documents that explained what would happen and the correct labeling of certain ships such as the Flottentender Saar to the U=bootsbeglietschiff Saar.   Members on other forums have posted some of these documents.  The Production would have these tallies sold in bundles. There would be a master tally and it was said that the quartermaster corps would inspect the tally with a random tally package being supplied from the production facility.  ( To my knowledge, I haven't been able to figure out exactly what production house these naval ribbons were produced). I would assume they would be in port cities but that is just an educated guess. 

You can see how they were sold and produced.  There is a great example currently for sale on Helmut Weitze's online store:

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/75/Original_Box_40_Stueck_Muetzenbaender_3_Marineartillerieabteilung_3__202175.html

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I will post more later. This is a very big question to answer in just one sitting. 

Thanks,

JustinG

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Hello my friends,

Is anyone who has information about Führerboot des B.d.M (Befehlshaber der Marine) Mützenbander in wear.
Thanks for help.
Cheers, Morten.

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On 5/5/2013 at 6:44 AM, JustinG said:

I managed to get my hands on a nice full length version with a different classification.  So I have both the U=Begleitschiff  and the full spelled out Unterseebootsbegleitschiff Erwin Waßner.

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Have you Any photo oøf Thoresen in wear?

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I did a quick google search and found one that had a sailor with the Erwin Waßner visible.  Sold for over 40 euro.  Probably a rare one to show up with one in wear. 

 

Best Regards,

JustinG

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On 10/13/2018 at 11:59 AM, KM-Norway said:

Have you Any photo oøf Thoresen in wear?

I mean ,have you any photo  of these Mützenband in wear?

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On 10/15/2018 at 10:40 PM, KM-Norway said:

I mean ,have you any photo  of these Mützenband in wear?

So did I.  I haven't picked up the addiction of collecting photographs of sailors wearing the particular cap bands... Yet.. ?

I have about 4 photo albums that have formal shots of them in uniform with named tallies and such. 

The Unterseebootstender/beglietschiff tallies themselves, with exception to the Saar, those at least fetch at least €180 in my humble opinion.  If you find one for cheaper, then I consider that a great bargain. 

Best Regards,

JustinG

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On 9/3/2018 at 6:58 AM, JustinG said:

Kevin H:

With regard to your question:  There were documents that explained what would happen and the correct labeling of certain ships such as the Flottentender Saar to the U=bootsbeglietschiff Saar.   Members on other forums have posted some of these documents.  The Production would have these tallies sold in bundles. There would be a master tally and it was said that the quartermaster corps would inspect the tally with a random tally package being supplied from the production facility.  ( To my knowledge, I haven't been able to figure out exactly what production house these naval ribbons were produced). I would assume they would be in port cities but that is just an educated guess. 

You can see how they were sold and produced.  There is a great example currently for sale on Helmut Weitze's online store:

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/75/Original_Box_40_Stueck_Muetzenbaender_3_Marineartillerieabteilung_3__202175.html

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I will post more later. This is a very big question to answer in just one sitting. 

Thanks,

JustinG

Thanks for the response and again I apologise for the delay in replying - life just gets in the way sometimes. It is intriguing to think that there just might be such a thing as a Bismarck tally out there somewhere either in a prototype form, a non-issued set stashed away in a place long forgotten or not to be revealed or one that got no further than a design on paper.

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There are always surprises.  However, as the years pass, I get a bit more skeptical.  I often thought that at the Blohm and Voss shipyard might have a stash somewhere that was never issued out.  The timing seemed to be possible for a tally to have been theoretically produced by the launch date.  Perhaps, the OKW thought it would be best not to issue until around the commissioning. After all she was a huge defiant ship that was going to break all of the treaty of Versailles stipulations.   

The complexity of their construction makes them incredibly difficult for people to create a forgery that can’t be easily spotted.   Now, there is the Scharnhorst Belfast fake that is the exception.  Sold as a souvenir piece at the HMS Belfast museum, one of the legs is shorter.  Also the tally is in cotton.  So a shortened Scharnhorst is a dangerous purchase as the tally from the Belfast has a shorter leg on the end.  Unscrupulous people have no problem trying to cut the ends and even them up and pass on that it is period but period shortened.

 

Regards,

JustinG

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