Jump to content
Historical War Militaria Forum
Kevin H

Show us your Luftwaffe Flying Units Documents

Recommended Posts

The next doucment is Fischer's 'Deutsche Lebens-Rettungs-Gesellschaft Grundschein', issued on 10-October-1936 while Fischer was serving with 5./Kampfgeschwader 153.

II./Kampfgeschwader 153 was at this period led by Gruppenkommandeur Major Gunther Ziegler at Finsterwalde, and operated with Junkers Ju 52, Dornier Do 23, Junkers Ju 86 and Dornier Do 17 aircraft.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 27-February-1937, Horst Fischer now an Unteroffizier, qualified for the award of the  Fliegerschützen Abzeichen.

The A4 sized document is numbered as 4768 issued in 1937, and is ink signed by RKT Hans-Jurgen Stumpff.    

                                                   

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The next document records the award of the Dienstauszeichnung IV. Klasse to Unteroffizier Fischer on 01-April-1938 while serving with 5./Kampfgeschwader 255.  The document is signed by Generalmajor Ludwig Wolff (RKT KVKmS).

II./Kampfgeschwader was a that time led by Oberstleutnant Dr. Johann-Volkmar Fisser, and operated from Leipheim.                                                   

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 01-October-1939 Fischer was awarded the Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1.Oktober 1938.

 

The document is signed by Generalmajor Wolfgang Von Stutterheim (RKT & PLM) as Kommodore Kampfgeschwader 77.                        

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so I am not the only one who got nice items because of the vigilance of Kevin :smile:

To check the signatures is a good approach because I think those pre-war signatures are generally a bit overlooked. But in fact one can find nice autographs on documents which would otherwise be relatively unspectacular.

And very strange is once again the fact that even an ID-document for the sports badge was supposed to have a photo while a soldbuch - which was really the identification card of a soldier and as such surely more important - would not have one. Silly world of German administration :confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7-9-2016 at 7:25 PM, Stewy said:

Hi Richard, please contact me via email. Stewy

Hi Stewy, have done, look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards Richard.

 

On 7-9-2016 at 11:05 PM, Michael1000 said:

Ah, so I am not the only one who got nice items because of the vigilance of Kevin :smile:

 

To check the signatures is a good approach because I think those pre-war signatures are generally a bit overlooked. But in fact one can find nice autographs on documents which would otherwise be relatively unspectacular.

Michael, for myself the signatures make up a significant part of the group, especially if they are an RKT or DKiG holder.  Pre, and early war period document sets often glean some very rare and desirable signatures in my experience.

Time to get posting again!

Regards Richard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 01-December-1939 Horst Fischer, now serving with 7./Kampfgeschwader 77 was promoted to the rank of Feldwebel.

 

The A4 size document bears the authorising signature of Major Walther Wadehn, Gruppenkommandeur III./Kampfgeschwader 77.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For his actons, on 22-June-1940 Feldwebel Fischer was the Eiserne Kreuz 2. Klasse.

 

His EK 2 Urkunde bears the signature of Generalleutnant Bruno Loerzer (RKT & PLM).                                                      

Please login or register to see this attachment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now flying with 8./Kampfgeschwader 77, Fischer was awarded the Eiserne Kreuz 1.Klasse on 27-March-1941.  The Urkunde was signed by Generalfeldmarschall Hugo Sperrle (RKT).

III./Kamfpgeschwader 77 were operating with Junkers Ju 88A machines from Juvincourt at this time.

(The Urkunde is actually roughly mounted on thick card and appears to of been framed at some point)

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In recognition for the completion of 60 operational missions, Horst Fischer was awarded the Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Silber on                                     13-July-1941.

The document is signed by Oberst Johann Raithel (RKT) as Kommodore Kampfgeschwader 77.

At this period in time, Kampfgeschwader 77 were fully committed to 'Barbarossa', and the high intensity of operations is reflected by Fischer accumulating this mission total.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horst Fischer was promoted to the rank of Oberfeldwebel on 01-May-1941, the document lists Fischer as now serving with III./Kampfgeschwader 77-Unterstab, and is dated 25-September-1941.

 

The document is again signed by Oberst Johann Raithel (RKT) as Kommodore Kampfgeschwader 77.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This document I believe, refers to Fischer's decision toleave the Evangelical Church (?) and is dated 24-September-1943.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The final document in this set for Horst Fischer is his Discharge Certificate.

 

Of note is the fact he is listed as disabled, after having his upper leg amputated due to a shell splinter.  On the reverse side of the certificate, is a date for 14-September-1944 (!) which I found suprising leading me to believe he was discharged before the end of hostilities.

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope these might prove of interest, and if anyone can add any snippets of info they will of course be gratefully recieved.

 

As I said earlier, I have not spent any gret amount of time researching this set, as to what happened to him post 1941 is something that will probably not be able to be ascertained without access to his Soldbuch, Wehrpass or Flugbuch.

 

If anyone can detail exactly what the 'Unterstab' was, I will be interested to learn.  I did pose that question on 12OCH some time ago and the answer was it was comprised of cooks, drivers and orderlies etc.  Personally, I find that quite difficult to believe.

 

 

Regards Richard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the 1944 on the backpage of the POW paper is a mistake and should also mean 1945. Then it would fit in nicely with the other dates and I also think the paper itself is dated 1945. 

 

I have never heard of an Unterstab and here was initially thinking that it was just part of a stab which was maybe separated from the main part of the stab geographically. But then I googled it a bit and

the few things I found indeed confirmed a bit the the cook theory. But it seems it was not a separate unit for cooks and orderlies but rather a term used for all members of the stab which had a lower rank (and could therefore of course also be cooks and drivers etc.). Why your Feldwebel was considered a part of an Unterstab is another question - I don't know where the line was drawn between Stab and Unterstab. But I am sure in this case it does not mean that this soldier was suddenly transferred to a support unit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8-9-2016 at 1:26 PM, Michael1000 said:

I think the 1944 on the backpage of the POW paper is a mistake and should also mean 1945. Then it would fit in nicely with the other dates and I also think the paper itself is dated 1945. 

 

I have never heard of an Unterstab and here was initially thinking that it was just part of a stab which was maybe separated from the main part of the stab geographically. But then I googled it a bit and

the few things I found indeed confirmed a bit the the cook theory. But it seems it was not a separate unit for cooks and orderlies but rather a term used for all members of the stab which had a lower rank (and could therefore of course also be cooks and drivers etc.). Why your Feldwebel was considered a part of an Unterstab is another question - I don't know where the line was drawn between Stab and Unterstab. But I am sure in this case it does not mean that this soldier was suddenly transferred to a support unit.

Michael, after looking at it again, it probably might indeed be an error and should indeed read 1945.

Thanks for the info on the Unterstab although, as you say it still doesn't explain why a Fliegerschtzen was employed in this fashion.

Regards Richard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, well he received no awards at all after 1941 even though he received many before that. At his rate he should have received the Ehrenpokal quickly. So it seems he stopped flying. I find it hard to believe that he stayed on the ground and just acted as a normal Feldwebel. So if I had to guess I would say he moved away from that KG, maybe to a training unit or something.

He was at a technical school before the war and in 1943 he lived in Dortmund even though I think he was not from Dortmund. Did the Luftwaffe have any significant facilities in Dortmund?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I don't have any experience in the Luftwaffe area I certainly find this a great document grouping. Thanks for sharing, Richard, hopefully others can tell you more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately 101 different things could of happened to him that would of meant he remained on the ground but without his medical and disciplinary records we may never know why - car crash, caught in a bomb blast on his airfield or at home, fell off a ladder and so on. Still, a very nice grouping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great group for sure. Thanks for showing it.

I don't want to disturb your post but here is a ID disk related to a member of II./KG 77 :

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting post! Strange that one does find almost nothing about those Unterstäbe considering how important they were. It makes total sense that someone had to take care of all those duties.
I guess it is one of those parts of an army which is often totally neglected in the history books.

Thanks for this post - I certainly learned a lot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×