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Steve L

Post war Souval RK

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Gentlemen, hope it is O.K. to post in this section.

I have just obtained this post war produced Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oaks & Swords...I would imagine made sometime in 1960's, as it is only silver marked, no "L58".. These RK's by Rudolph Souval of Vienna, were I have read, bought and sometimes worn by veterans in defiance of the 1957 regulations, representatives of Souval and the other makers being in attendance at certain veterans meetings in order to offer for sale their wares. I think this one was owned by Mathijs at one time.....it has just flown to the U.K. from New Zealand !

 Souval products have caused headaches for collectors from 1945 to the present, and are hated by some as fake/repro's, they are now becoming collectable in their own right and are IMO as close as you can get to a WW2 produced item, this RK being as close (and my bank account) as I will get to the real thing ! 

With Souvals "hollow" Oaks and Swords accompanying this piece (he also did solid Oaks/Swords), the cross exhibits typical Souval die stamped construction with its magnetic core with low swastika, and frame hatching, the frames and Oaks and Swords are silver "800" marked, I believe earlier ones of these Souval RK's were also marked with the L/58 marking, but not this one. I completed the set with a Souval RK Etui/box,which I had obtained last year with a 57er RK, which is slightly bigger in width than the 57er and WW2 versions...... It now resides in my 1957 collection with all my other 57er RK, all eleven of them ! Love it or loath it, comments please

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Prost ! Steve.

  More photos to follow................

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Thanks for posting that one, Steve.

 

As this is not a 57er but a piece that vets bought after the war in think we can still let this thread roll here.

A very nice cross with typical hollow Souval OLS. A very nice set and by now accepted more and more ....... because these have their own history and have been made by a TR producer.

 

Many hate them, as you said but many like or love them because these have not been made to fool collectors IMO but for souveniers and many vets bought these for their lost or stolen original RK.

 

The frame shows some flaws and the L/58 mark and so i think you´re right with the 60s ...... more mid to late IMO. And these are the real deal when you want a TR RK and haven´t got the money for a Juncker or S&L or the cheaper Klein & Quenzer. An accepted reproduction and well worth the money.

 

I had these a few times in hand and was very pleased with the quality.

Longer ago i could lay my hands on a Klein & Quenzer RK, having that one in hand was really great and the quality was wonderful and a better but the difference in price would bring someone like me back to Souval.

 

Thanks for showing, Steve. I notice that you have a run at the moment ...... lucky guy  :smile:

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Thanks Rudy ! I have Stalingrad survivor "Major Eberhard Pohl" 57'er nachless to show yet, but I am still formulating a thread and wait for one last piece of research to come up trumps !..........there's another 925 marked RK with oaks and a Schickle RK on there way.............should be here within 10 days.

  Meanwhile here is the Souval etui/box, that I have reunited with this cross to make a complete set !

  Last photo shows the size difference between the Souval and a typical 57er RK etui/box.

     Prost ! Steve. 

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First time that i see a Souval RK etui  :ohmy:  Many thanks and especially for the comparison pic.

 

Can´t wait to see the Pohl grouping. That is a great piece of history from a man who saw the hell for sure.

 

So you finally managed to get a Schickle RK ...... not bad in such a short time. Like i said above ...... you have a run at the moment  :thumbup:

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Rudy, as you have pointed out above, this cross is a later produced Souval RK due to its heavily flawed frames and as I have learnt, a lack of a dipping "3" in the core, that the earlier versions had, so it seems these fellows, not unlike their 57er counterparts have two different cores, and frame flaws, that can determine their production era ! and I used to dismiss Souvals products as crap ! you live an learn...it looks like you can teach an old dog new tricks ! :smile:

 Prost ! Steve.

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Great RK Steve!! While most were made for the collectors market, its a fact that some were bought and worn by vets as replacements for their lost wartime awards, that, coupled with the fact that they aren't trying to copy a wartime variant, for me make these collectable, either as a vets piece alongside the 57ers or as a collectable postwar Souval in its own right, always nice to have the case too!!!

-Nigel

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Good luck with that Steve!!

I did have a nice one myself at one time, but sold it to concentrate on other stuff, regret it sometimes, but the money went to a good cause!!!!

Its hacks me off sometimes when some collectors just dismiss thses as fakes and no more! I once discussed this over at the other forum with a wartime collector, and I asked him if he thought a Souval RK was any more collectable if it was owned and worn by a vet as a postwar replacement piece, but he said it was still just a worthless fake!!!

I think they are nice and collectable even without any vets link or provenance!!!

-Nigel

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Hi Steve, I just got a double marked Souval in my hands "800" and "L/58" .... will post here as well once I find the time.

 

As you all said, there are many haters out there for postwar Souval pieces. Nevertheless, they do deserve a place in the postwar and 1957 time line.

Technically they are indeed reproduction pieces, but have to say the quality of some pieces is so very close to wartime production !!!!

And also, they do not burn a huge hole in your pocket :w00t:

 

Grtz,

Mathijs

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Hi Steve, I just got a double marked Souval in my hands "800" and "L/58" .... will post here as well once I find the time.

Grtz, Mathijs

 

Hi Mathijs .....great pick up ! :thumbup:  Is it Bob's Souval ?

I shall now try to find one of those myself to keep my "800" company,  I know what you mean about leving a huge hole in your pocket ! I doubt I shall ever lay out for the cost of a genuine WW2 RK ! having just spent a rather large amount on a "Shickle" 57er RK !!! my pocket is now rather empty  :w00t:

   Prost ! Steve.

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Hi Steve, here are the pictures of my double marked Souval ( "800" + "L/58" ).

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And here an unmarked one .... came from the Nachlass of an SS officer ( name unknown )

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Great looking crosses Mathijs ! Especially the double marked one,  I shall have to keep my eyes open for one of those !........  is it correct that the double marked crosses are the earliest from Souval ?

 Prost ! Steve.

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Mathias and Steve:

Hello! Thank you for sharing your crosses with the Forum. Your crosses are in great condition. I agree, the Souval is the closest I will come to owning a period cross. I just recently posted my 1960 re-issued cross by Souval. Much for me to learn about the crosses made by Souval. Thank you once again for sharing your militaria and being valued members of the Forum.

Best regards,

John R.

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